tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post8980299358894366332..comments2023-10-29T06:03:10.808-04:00Comments on Pensive Mischief: The Big Spoilery MAD MEN PostStuart Moorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-37311583192727864712009-07-19T23:01:02.339-04:002009-07-19T23:01:02.339-04:00I think Don and Peggy have become "office spo...I think Don and Peggy have become "office spouses". Don and Peggy have experienced things together that has caused them to respect and appreciate each other's intellect, talents, and flaws. He perhaps assisted her with her pregnancy, and we know that she covered for him on many occasions. I don't believe this is a sexual relationship. I believe it is a true friendship. Peggy has caused him to see her as a real person, not just "one of the girls". He now is taken aback at rude remarks to women in the office because one of them has a face, feelings, and intelligence. That person is Peggy. She has created a paradign shift in him as the one she experienced when she discovered his relationship with Midge. Just my take...this is a great site. Thanks for letting me be a part of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-8077063403708245952008-08-26T17:07:00.000-04:002008-08-26T17:07:00.000-04:00Or, an idea that's been brought up on other sites:...Or, an idea that's been brought up on other sites: Maybe it's Peggy's baby that didn't make it?<BR/><BR/>I'm now ready to revise my thinking: I don't think there's an active, current affair going on between Don and Peggy. But something more happened between them after the flashbacks we saw this week. I think they're both really, really stuck on each other in a way that doesn't make either of them happy.Stuart Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-45509733869743681142008-08-25T21:58:00.000-04:002008-08-25T21:58:00.000-04:00Well, last night's episode "New Girl" explains wha...Well, last night's episode "New Girl" explains what I wondered about in my previous posting. Don did know about Peggy's hospitalization. And she in turn is the "one phone call" he makes when in trouble with Bobby (thateveilhorndog)Mark my word,Bobby brings everyone down. I fear she will feed poor Peggy bad advice and dismantle the few things Peggy has going for herself, namely her little apartment and a budding career. Ever wonder why Don is letting this dame have her way with him? I think it is because he is being chased and probably doesn't think he is cheating on Betty if he isn't the one going after the sex. A guy can't refuse a game of hide the salami, now can he? On another matter, the sister who is raising Peggy and Pete's kid. She looked preggers in the hospital scene with her mother and the dr. What happened to her baby? Did I miss seeing a second todler? Can anyone fill in this detail?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-86748018624170441522008-08-20T17:14:00.000-04:002008-08-20T17:14:00.000-04:00I would have replied to this sooner, but I was at ...I would have replied to this sooner, but I was at the printer's.<BR/><BR/>I don't in any way mean to suggest that Peggy has her job because of any relationship with the men in the office -- and I'm quite sure the writers don't, either. But that doesn't mean something isn't going on, and the early dismissal of the possibility is a classic writer's tool of misdirection. They're playing pretty cagey with the whole thing if it's true; but Matthew Weiner has said there are surprises coming.<BR/><BR/>Also noted this week:<BR/><BR/>We had our first real indication that Cooper (Robert Morse) might be losing it. If so, that might explain why Roger Sterling is so firmly entrenched, when he seemed on the way out last season.<BR/><BR/>Is Duck headed for a trip off the wagon?<BR/><BR/>I suspect Cosgrove's salary is so much higher than the other writers' because he "knows a lot of girls."Stuart Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-2682972795224512652008-08-19T00:26:00.000-04:002008-08-19T00:26:00.000-04:00re: "There has been no hint of any romantic or sex...re: "There has been no hint of any romantic or sexual chemistry between Don and Peggy" [Joe Tank]<BR/><BR/>In season one, Peggy touched Don's hand suggestively and Don said something like "Don't get confused - I'm your boss, not your boyfriend." The writers brought up the subject and then pointedly shut down a sexual story between Peggy and Don. <BR/><BR/>@ Stuart Moore<BR/><BR/>Considering the statement above and that Peggy is the female character the writers are using to represent the changing role of women in society at that time, making her the sexual partner of Don seems incongruous to me. In the office, she has a right to be respected based on merit, not because she might be sexually aligned with the boss.<BR/><BR/>I can't recall any of the other Sterling Cooper employees being praised for the creativity of their work product other than Don and Peggy. Peggy, like Don, has demonstrated more than once that she has the ability to create what is ineffable to everyone else at the firm. It makes sense that she gets special treatment from Don because she is the only other person who, like him, can evoke powerful ideas from the ether. He recognizes her talent and develops it because it is a worthwhile endeavor, not necessarily because he's sleeping with her. <BR/><BR/>Considering everything Peggy has done to earn her place in the office, it's unfair to paint Peggy as powerful because she's sleeping with Don. That effectively negates everything else she's accomplished and if stretched out to it's maximum, that logic suggests that the writers are saying that the women's movement never really happened; women haven't earned the rights, power and privleges they've gained over the last 40 years, they've just slept their way into their current roles in society. Women have power now because, like Peggy, they've earned it by using their heads, not by laying on their backs and I don't see any evidence that the writers believe otherwise.<BR/><BR/>You say Don gets angry at the jerks in the elevator because their conversation obliquely references Peggy, when the more obvious reason is that the jerks' behaviour is totally unacceptable considering that there is a woman in the car with all of them. If you want a psychological explanation, Don objects to the jerks talking about the woman so crudely because he imagines that is how men spoke about his mother, who we know from season one was "a whore". In this example, Don doesn't have Peggy issues, he has mommy issues.<BR/><BR/>@ Everyone<BR/><BR/>Remember - When you get caught goofing off and someone wants to know where you've been you're standard response is "I was at the printers". It about as close to a catch phrase as we're going to get out of this show and other fans who hear you saying it will think you are clever as hell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-58351020715725699842008-08-17T06:43:00.000-04:002008-08-17T06:43:00.000-04:00I also found the analysis interesting, but I don't...I also found the analysis interesting, but I don't agree with your theory. I had an excellent platonic relationship with a former boss and I think the way Peggy and Don act toward one another is based on mutual respect. I think there are good explanations for what occurs in the episode, but I don't think an affair is among them. I think he sent the book to Rachel, because I am pretty sure we haven't seen the last of her yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-74607441871180876032008-08-10T06:39:00.000-04:002008-08-10T06:39:00.000-04:00This blog is great.I enjoy kicking around the stor...This blog is great.I enjoy kicking around the story elements.Could someone explain about how girls in Peggy's situation handled this problem. Would an employee be able to take a leave and be given her job back? Would Don, the boss, had to have been told about Peggy's hospitalized? The remark by Peggy's sister made that the State of New York did not think she was competent suggests they may have investigated her for the welfare of the baby's sake. Did they talk to employers in those days? What happened in those days? Did most girls in trouble get to keep their jobs? I love this blog. Thanks for keeping the discussion going.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-70636095930048258562008-08-08T15:53:00.000-04:002008-08-08T15:53:00.000-04:00I do not think Peggy & Don are together... The...I do not think Peggy & Don are together... They are more Kindred spirits. I don't think Don initially thought of Peggy as a superstar at 1st, I think he knew it would make Pete angry to put Peggy on his father in law's account (which clearly upset Pete). She probably worked her way, becoming eyes & ears for Don, loyalty! I think Don is associated with the affair b/c it is closer than the truth.. Only the janitor saw them together.. I think once Don gets a sniff that Peggy had a baby and that pete is the father, the show will be upside down.. Joan will have a field day since Peggy didn't go to her for help (as all the girls do).. B/c of that, Joan will become a chip on Peggy's Shoulder... Pete and his wife probably won't be ablt to have children and his wife will want to adopt the baby... another story line.. aI think Don may turn on Peggy when the truth comes out because he thinks she better than that!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-83761032618993619372008-08-05T20:04:00.000-04:002008-08-05T20:04:00.000-04:00I remain a disbeliever. There has been no hint of ...I remain a disbeliever. There has been no hint of any romantic or sexual chemistry between Don and Peggy, as opposed to between Don and Rachel last season, or even between Don and the Waitress in the last episode.<BR/><BR/>Characters on this show keep secrets, from each other and from the audience, but in the past these secrets were hinted at and built up before they were revealed. I still see no evidence for, and decent amount against, the Don/Peggy theory.Joe Tankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11155823492374039946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-89418786773751307052008-08-05T16:26:00.000-04:002008-08-05T16:26:00.000-04:00AND: The exchange between Peggy and Joan in Peggy'...AND: The exchange between Peggy and Joan in Peggy's office is provocative and somewhat conspiratorial. "People should not bring their personal problems into the office." "Is it so hard to leave everything at the door and just do your job?" That's potent and pretty much out of left field unless Joan is referring to the suspected affair.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-58604882853579659532008-08-05T16:18:00.000-04:002008-08-05T16:18:00.000-04:00Peggy's actions in episode 2 support the theory: h...Peggy's actions in episode 2 support the theory: her uncomplicated friendliness with Trudy Campbell, the new sophistication and detachment in her dealings with other men (easily brushing off the guy who's necking with her at the party). But Draper's sadness and resignation the night of the card game ... It might be a stretch to attribute his state of mind, the hopelessness and resignation, to a man deeply in loveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-82423486177245787692008-08-05T08:38:00.000-04:002008-08-05T08:38:00.000-04:00Hmm ... I'm going to watch the rest of the season ...Hmm ... I'm going to watch the rest of the season with this theory in mind, but I'm not sure this is what's going on. I read Peggy's loyalty to Don as gratitude for giving her a shot at a copywriting job; Don's behavior toward her suggests more that he recognizes her creative talents and wants to encourage them (and he understands the value of a woman's perspective on female-centric products).<BR/><BR/>As for the impotence on Valentine's Day: that was the same episode in which Don gets a medical exam and is prescribed drugs to lower blood pressure and help his stress. Could that be the cause?<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, the whole arc about Peggy's weight gain was so subtly and cleverly handled that I'm ready for them to surprise me in all kinds of ways :-)LimeyGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388899118602772119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-55002081764069386212008-08-05T07:27:00.000-04:002008-08-05T07:27:00.000-04:00Episode 2 didn't support or deflate our theory ver...Episode 2 didn't support or deflate our theory very much, I thought. The episode dealt much more with the Sterling Cooper over-story, Pete's family, and Joan-vs.-Paul (which was fun), while revealing the status of Peggy's baby.<BR/><BR/>Don's decision not to pick up the girl in the restaurant fits with the idea that he's got something more serious going on. And his strong reaction to Carlton's infidelities seemed oversensitive, to me. Just as in the elevator last episode, he's imagining what people will say about him. But really, not much evidence one way or the other. If it is true -- and I'm still convinced -- I hope they don't string it out too long.<BR/><BR/>What did you think?Stuart Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-54524803152012710762008-08-04T21:55:00.000-04:002008-08-04T21:55:00.000-04:00Stuart: I guess simpler explanations are by defini...Stuart: I guess simpler explanations are by definition more satisfying to me, as long as they're not inconsistent with each other.<BR/><BR/>So how does your theory stand in light of episode 2?Joe Tankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11155823492374039946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-66931866234110729302008-08-04T01:00:00.000-04:002008-08-04T01:00:00.000-04:00I think this is a brilliant analysis. It explains ...I think this is a brilliant analysis. It explains a lot that bothered me in the first episode. I did at first sense there was something going on between Draper and Peggy but then dismissed it. Time will tell. But I'll be disappointed if the plot development is less intriguing than your projections.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-7757953072324376312008-08-01T17:33:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:33:00.000-04:00...although, Liz just reminded me: Pete stole the ......although, Liz just reminded me: Pete stole the package about fourteen months ago as the show opens. Before the lock sequence, we see Joan putting on her Valentine's dress, so it's reasonable to assume the lock is put in on that same day. Why would Don wait more than a year to have a lock put on his office, if the reason was Pete's thievery?<BR/><BR/>(This is fun.)Stuart Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-24861979802870029512008-08-01T17:29:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:29:00.000-04:00That hadn't occurred to me, but it makes sense, to...That hadn't occurred to me, but it makes sense, too...Stuart Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-4795267619923394992008-08-01T12:09:00.000-04:002008-08-01T12:09:00.000-04:00The lock on the door is because Pete stole the pac...The lock on the door is because Pete stole the package that was on Don's desk that had been sent to Don by his brother.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07438906573184013456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-63161345277477610742008-08-01T09:06:00.000-04:002008-08-01T09:06:00.000-04:00Thanks for playing! Oh, I agree there are simpler ...Thanks for playing! Oh, I agree there are simpler explanations...otherwise the show wouldn't work at all. But the two keys to me are (1) the lock on the door and (2) the book Don mails at the end. It just doesn't make sense to me that he'd be sending it to one of his old girlfriends -- they're history at this point. And any other explanation just isn't satisfying.Stuart Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14275736024834321182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5299061578924379724.post-48844033825146333392008-07-31T21:24:00.000-04:002008-07-31T21:24:00.000-04:00Interesting idea, but I don't think that's what's ...Interesting idea, but I don't think that's what's going on. I think there are simpler explanations for all the things you cite in your post.<BR/><BR/>For example, Peggy's treatment of Lois is her taking out her work-related frustrations on those below her in the hierarchy. Those frustrations being that she's still expected to run errands for her male counterparts, like fetching glasses and finding out where Don is, not to mention the upbraiding she got from Joan when she was too forthcoming about Don's affairs in the past.<BR/><BR/>And Joan's treatment of Lois, and subsequent placement of the copy machine in Peggy's office, are more examples of Joan maintaining the SC pecking order, just like we saw her doing last season. She doesn't need a deeper reason.<BR/><BR/>As for Don's “How stupid do you think I am?” reply to Betty, that looked like a husband taking the shortest route possible out of an uncomfortable and potentially incriminating line of questioning, while giving his wife as little information as he could. It was pure politics on a small scale.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't rule out Don and Peggy having an affair down the road, but I don't think that's what's happening now.Joe Tankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11155823492374039946noreply@blogger.com